I initially posted this as a response to MTM, but I probably should have made it it's own post since there were no responses. Things haven't improved with my daughter and there are more troubling interactions happening with her brothers since my original post.

My daughter Natalie feels the need to be talking ALL THE TIME! it's like she has no off button. She makes negative visual observations (i.e. "Ewe.. look at that guy's ugly shirt" or "you have bad breath") most often times when we are in the middle of a different conversation. It's almost like it's impossible for her not to be talking. I told her I would "hate to be her date at the drive-in!" lol She probably doesn't know what that means yet. She's only 10-years-old but I've got her in counselling after school once a week for her inability to handle conflict and quick escalation of anger. It's almost like she becomes another person when she is angry. It's quite frightening. She's had horrible sleep walking fits also, where I'm afraid for her safety. She tries feverishly to get out the front door while she is in a deep sleep, all the while screaming like she is being chased or hurt. Thankfully, my father suggested putting dead bolts and chains on the door up high so she can't get out. That has certainly helped.

She is very outgoing, but awkwardly hugs, and says she loves new acquaintences, and not everyone likes it. I'm convinced even though I have drilled the "no talking to strangers or going off with strangers" thing into her head, she would go off with a stranger without batting an eyelash. She get's excellent grades in school and loves math to the point where she makes her own homework for math, and digs up old workbooks and does them in her bed at night before bed...such the opposite of me! I never liked math - I need a calculator at restaurants to figure out my totals after the tip.

Anyways.. I seem to have gone on and on and on. I'd be anxious to hear any parent's replies, to see if they have dealt with this before and if they have any suggestions.

Oh.. another thing... Natalie is VERY VERY VERY competitive! She needs to be first in line, needs to win every game, or she has a meltdown, all food items and drinks need to be perfectly equal or she feels sighted and has another meltdown. She also has a knee-jerk negative response to anything that is said.. even if we are not talking to her. For example; My son said; "Mommy, aren't I getting good at Tae Kwon Do?" and Natalie immediately piped in with "No!" and then will laugh. Or I mentioned that I thought there was a large mosquito on the car windshield which was odd for this time of year, and she immediately came out with "No it's not!" or I'll ask her to put on her shoes in the morning and she'll say "they aren't shoes, they are boots" in a sassy tone. It's very difficult to deal with this on a day to day basis. I think the counselling is helping some, but I think her unique personality will pose social probems going forward. Especially the redundant modes of questioning, and the blatantly obvious answers that she still feels she needs to question; like "Mommy how long has your hair been brown?".. seriously.. she knows it's always been brown, but these types of questions come all the time.

Any thoughts!?

Thanks so much!


~Heather~
Single Mom to Triplets,
Shawn, Travis & Natalie (12/00)
"Where does the time go?"

It sounds like Natalie has a couple issues going on. She's lucky to have you as her mom. You see the issues and are getting her help.

The first thing that struck me was the sleepwalking. Have you had her checked out by her doctor? The reason why I ask is that it isn't uncommon for kids that have sleep disturbances to have behavior issues. She might have some type of sleep issue (apnea, restless legs, etc.) that cause her to be overtired. This can manifest itself in anger. And please note, not all sleep issues are typical (snoring, sleepwalking, etc.) Two of my boys have sleep issues and show no typical signs. A sleep study is very informative!

The other issue that struck me was her enthusiasm for math and school but awkward social issues (hugs, bad breath comments). She's old enough to understand these issues on some levels. And your right - kids are cruel sometimes and can make social issues in the future hard for her. You may want to see if what the counselor thinks. She sounds like she may have a few markers for Aspergers. Very bright kids with some issues with social interactions. I'm not saying this is something she has but you asked for some thoughts.

If she's competitive with her siblings, perhaps she needs more one-on-one time. Boy, isn't that easy to say when you have lots of kids. But perhaps she's feeling insecure about herself and needs to build herself up at the expense of others.

I'm sorry you didn't get any response on your previous post. I hope this individual post provides you more feedback.

Sharon
13 year old b/b/b

Some of the behaviors your daughter is exhibiting sound familiar. I have one girl who is very attention-seeking and high energy. And she talks a lot!

Have you had conversations with her about her behavior? Does she recognize that what she is doing may not serve her well in situations with friends, etc? I would recommend choosing one behavior to focus on at a time. I would sit down with her during some mommy time and really discuss how her behavior affects you, her siblings, strangers, etc. She may not be aware that she is behaving differently than others. Then, I would make a plan with her so she can try to control the behavior. It will likely be very difficult for her since to her it is second nature, so the first step will be to just recognize when the behavior happens. She needs to want to change the behavior. To help her recognize the problem, for example, you could ask her how she would like you to let her know when the behavior occurs. You might come up with a secret sign or signal that lets her know she is talking out of turn, asking inappropriate questions, or whatever the behavior is that you and she have chosen to address. The goal is to move from merely recognizing the behavior to then stopping it before it happens. This will be a long process.

I also thought of asperger's when you described your daughter's behavior. You might want to discuss this possibility with the school counselor. That her weekly counseling is helping is good news. I would also ask about the availability of a social skills group. Schools sometimes run these groups to help kids learn appropriate social skills with peers. It can be very helpful to practice conversation skills with other students.

I too would check out her sleep issues with her doctor. The disrupted sleep will certainly not help her ability to cope during the day.

Good luck!
Heather
Grace, Madeline & Claire -- 10/2000
Noah -- 4/2004

Hopefully Natalie's counselor can give you some tips on dealing with her anger and behavioral problems. Has s/he mentions Aspergers?

Just a few ideas from another parent-

Could you set up a reward system for appropriate behavior?
It seems some of her behavior is attention getting.
Maybe everytime you hear her saying something nice she gets a token (plastic chips?). The same for pleasant and appropriate behavoir. At the end of the week (maybe start with the end of the day and move to the week, then month) she can turn them in for say 5 mins of special Mom and Me time. If she gets 3 tokens by the end of a day, she gets to read a book alone with you. If she can make it a whole week, she might have enough to get a movie with you or another special friend.
So much behavior is habit. Once you get used to being pleasant, it starts to come naturally.

As for the competitiveness, the best sport, in my opinion, for a competivie person is swim team.
Besides being a BIG calorie burner- important for those with behavioral problems- you are part of a team but really competing against yourself.
There is no room for ego in swimming. No complaints- "the coach doesn't like me", "no one threw the ball to me", "no one appreciates good defense", "it was the goalie's fault" etc.
In swimming, it all comes down to the numbers. If your time was the fastest, you win.
This makes it difficult to have harsh feelings for an opponent.
Swim teams are known for great sportsmanship.

Lastly, I would have her tested for allergies. Unless someone has an anaphylactic reaction or skin problems, allergies are frequently overlooked but can be the basis for many behavioral issues.

Good Luck


Judie and Victor
lucky parents to
Frankie 3/95
Maggie 7/96
Rose 7/96
Elizabeth 7/96

Hi Sharon,

Thank you for your response. I actually started playing a classical CD in her room again like I used to do when she was an infant, and it has helped tremendously with the sleepwalking and the screaming in her sleep. So far.. so good on that piece.

Natalie's counselor hasn't come out with a label - I think it's because she is not a doctor, but she has eluded to a possible "mood disorder" and suggested I consider having her evaluated by a specialist. However, each time she mentions it.. she follows it with with "he or she will most likely prescribe medication to help with the behavioral issues." Her counsellor is a big proponent of natural remedies and holistic approaches to treatment as opposed to prescription medications. I'm not sure where I stand on that myself. I know that when I had post-partum depression I would never have survived without the medications.. maybe it's the same for her. I guess I have to weigh the pros and cons.

I agree with the one on one time being difficult with triplets, especially as a single-mom. I'm actually a team leader in her Girl Scout troop and she and I go to dance classes alone together every Friday, but as my mother mentioned, it's still not one on one time. She has to share me with the other girl scouts and we are not alone together on dance night either. I guess I'll have to brainstorm ideas on this too. My folks are more than helpful when it comes to taking one or more of them certain times of the week after school so I can attend meetings, Tae Kwon Do for the boys, etc. but they are getting up in age and I hate to burden them too often.

This is good advice.. thank you for your response.

~Heather~
Single Mom to Triplets,
Shawn, Travis & Natalie (12/00)
"Where does the time go?"

Hi Heahter,

Yes.. I've discussed her behavior with her on several occasions.. almost daily. I try to immediately repeat back what she has said and ask her how it is being kind or helpful. She usually just bows her head and says; "it's not" but she does not retain the lesson. A few moments later, it will happen again.

Natalie has a cousin on her father's side that has Asperger's. He is also very competitive and brilliant in school now that I think of it. Very interesting. However, he has more severe social communication issues. He stutters (although it's getting better) and he has some ticks as well.

Thank you for your comments. I will look into this a little more.

~Heather~
Single Mom to Triplets,
Shawn, Travis & Natalie (12/00)
"Where does the time go?"

Oooh.. I like the positive reward chips idea and earned time. This is great. I will try this out and let you know how it goes.

I like the swimming too. I'm not sure if she would be interested, or if I can afford it, but I will look into it. Great ideas. Thank you so much!

~Heather~
Single Mom to Triplets,
Shawn, Travis & Natalie (12/00)
"Where does the time go?"

Another proponent of swim team here! I've consistently said that putting my dd on swim team was one of my top 5 parenting decisions!

As Judie said, goalsetting is great - now, with a competitive kid you have to train them to understand that they are racing the clock more than the kid next to them. And they do have mutual respect for their competitors since they know what it takes to train and to increase their speed, etc.

As far as cost, shop around. Our YMCA hosts very low-key swim meets with other Y's around town. They don't charge anything to compete. My dd is a dancer so she only competes in summer club swimming. Most towns have many teams. Our dues run around $125 or so for the summer. That is 6-7 days of swimming for 7-8 weeks (including meets).

Our team (and most in the area) have "winter/spring practice". Our team will start around March 1 swimming for an hour on Sunday afternoons. Other teams start in Jan or Feb.

Finally, the comraderie of being part of a team is great. My dd has never had social problems but I do have a friend whose dd did. She is now swimming competitively year round and begs to go bc that is where her best friends are.

Sorry so long, I just didn't think about this when I read your first post, I'm glad Judie did!

Marie

Edited to add: swimming is a lifelong sport. Competitive swimming can be as well. Our private swim coach is 78 and still competes a few time per year!

I was going to say that this sounds a lot like some of the people I was in school with and work with. They either talk too much or not at all. They are very invested in their own views (defend them vigorously) and socially they are not very talented. They also are math/science nuts. None of that I know of are diagnosed as having Asperger's, but all exhibit a higher than average number of symptoms.

I agree with the other poster's suggestions about getting her into a self competitive sport, but I also encourage you to get her involved in her area of passion...math. Some schools have math/computer/science clubs and if this is an area where she is talented and has a passion, then encourage it. She will also find others similar to herself in these groups.

Is there anyone in your family that is a computer programmer/analyst, math/science/physics teacher, engineer, CPA...etc.? They might have some more ideas.


Susan

Parent to GGG born 31 weeks 4 days 4/26/07




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