Hi All!

My trio started K last Monday. They are a VERY young 5 years old, having just turned 5 at the end of July. All boys. And I mean "all boy" in every sense of the word .

I asked the teacher how they were doing last week (27 kids, ONE teacher...YIKES already no matter how talented she might be!)

She told me on day one that she instituted a new rule...they are not allowed to sit together at the tables during work time nor on the rug together during story time nor stand together if they are in line. I get this. I agree with it in principle. They misbehave when together. I know this. We have tried everything in the book to stop it. They are just goofy silly/excited when around each other some times. I am hoping against hope that time will mature them out of this (please God, make it so).

She then told me at the end of last week that she has given ONE of the boys his own desk because he "got around the rule" by getting out of his seat and visiting the other tables. Frankly, I was a bit surprised because this particular child was noted to be a VERY hard worker (and yes, teacher-pleaser) in K3 and K4 and it just isn't his nature to pop up and out of his seat. For a moment, I thought maybe she had him confused with another one of the trio!

She said the desk seats 2 and she offered to have another child sit with him but he said he, "likes it this way." He calls it his "office" and sits very quietly and diligently working on his work when in his office! He is quite proud of his office. They only sit there for 2 15-minute sessions out of the 2.5 hour day, so it isn't like he is isolated for a long time.

Should I be concerned? I mean, honestly, another of the trio would probably seriously benefit from having his own "office" because of attention/sensory issues. On the one hand, it was a creative solution and the boy is very excited about it. On the other hand, shouldn't she have put in at least a LITTLE work getting him to sit in his seat and obey the rules? It was the first week and she dealt with the problem by altering the situation, not really dealing with his behavior.

Or is this the first sign that one teacher and 27 kindergarten students is absolutely RIDICULOUS and she is going to have to do what she has to do just to get through the year. I am so bummed about the ratio because in years past they had 3 sessions (2 am, 1 pm) with about 14-16 kids in each session and all of a sudden this year they have 1 am and 1 pm session with 27 and 25 kids respectively! In my mind, 52 kids should have equaled 3 classes with 17/18 kids in each one!

Just seeking opinions here. I can see both sides and I am quite sure if I raised a concern, she would listen to me and work with me on it as much as she can with this many kids in the classroom!

BBB born 7/26/04 at 35 weeks

Our kids are about the same age and I used to teach, so I thought I'd chime in.

The ratio. Is that in compliance with state regulations? Obviously, it is or your kids wouldn't be in that class, right? LOL! I'm just really surprised. The teacher has no aide either? I'm trying to process one teacher and 27 5 year olds. I'm tired just thinking about it.

My girls' class has 17 children and 2 teachers as a comparison.

And I have to say, I like the "office" technique she has going for your DS. But, I hope it's not some stigma, KWIM? I hope she conveys to the class that this is a little area where everyone gets an opportunity to be alone and concentrate on their work.

Not sure I offered any solutions other than I hope "the office" is a fun place to go and not a punishment.

Lisa

I don't like the ratio also. I also wondered is she has an aid. Here we have a larger ratio. Well what we consider a larger ratio with 22 kids in the K classes with 1 teacher and a full time Para (aid) in each K class. then 1-5 they have the same number of students in each class but they have to share paras.

Several of the teachers here use the idea of the desk by itself. They call it "the island". Here at least it is usually temporary not for the rest of the year. I would ask your teacher if he will be rejoining his peers at some point. I would think it would only be lasting a few weeks. I don't know how your K teacher does his but in my class we switch seating as they get to used to each other and start becoming chatter boxes or annoyed with each other. Changing things up usually keeps the peace in different ways with different students.

If she doesn't have an aid it sounds like she is a teacher in need of volunteers. If you aren't able to volunteer maybe you can talk to her about coordinating efforts to schedule volunteers in the classroom. Set up and email group, easy to do, or web site if you have the Knowles for her to coordinate with the other parents.

Tasha
Have children afraid of monsters or just looking for a fun kids app? http://www.goawaymonster.com/

In Las Vegas, all the K classes have 25 to 35 students with one teacher. I lucked out and got in an afternoon class with only 22 kids. The morning class has 33 kids in it. Same school, same teacher. They only bus in the mornings though, so that is the reason for the disparity.

K is not federally mandated, so each state can do what they want with it. My state will routinely allow up to 35 kids with one teacher. My friend Misti's trio has 30 in her kids class.

I wouldn't worry about the desk. Mine were never allowed to sit by each other in P3 or P4, so they don't even act like they know each other in class anymore. I would bet after a couple weeks, he'll have to give up his throne and go back to the commoners, and he'll probably be sad.

Michele
Sarah, Gregory, Amanda
born 1/22/04 at 35w1d

Our surprise baby Austin born 06/15/2005

www.fourtimesthefun.blogspot.com

Right you are...if she wants to get rid of his "office" in a few weeks, she is going to have to pry him out with a crowbar! He loves it. It isn't punitive...they have the "thinking chair" for behavior issues (which my other two sons got to visit yesterday!).

She wanted to sit another (non-sibling) with him, but he told her he likes it the way it is. I'm not concerned about isolation because it is right there in the classroom and it is only 2 15-minute sessions.

Thanks all for responding! I was taken aback by it and it sounds like other teachers have used this technique or something similar.

I'll have to check on state mandates, thanks for bringing that up! She is one (experienced, thank goodness) teacher and there is an aide for that entire hallway, which includes kindergarten and 3 2nd grade classrooms (and maybe 1st too...not sure on that). Apparently, other teachers have been volunteering their "free time" to help her out with the kindergarteners.

They also have some 6th grade helpers that come in the morning to assist with getting the K students in the door and lined up in the hallway before going in to class and some 6th grade helpers at dismissal time getting the K students to the right door/bus/etc.

BBB born 7/26/04 at 35 weeks

The other thing I've learned is that they will not move/add/subtract teachers until the final count day in September. So even if your class had too many kids per mandate, they will not add teachers until the final count. Even at 33 in the morning and 22 in the afternoon, my school will not get an additional teacher. I'm just going to volunteer and see if I can get anyone else involved. My whole neighborhood is full of retired old ladies, and I think they should walk on down and read to some kids.

They are going to lock their gates, so I can't get to their doors.

Michele
Sarah, Gregory, Amanda
born 1/22/04 at 35w1d

Our surprise baby Austin born 06/15/2005

www.fourtimesthefun.blogspot.com

That's a lot of kids for a K class. I would be upset too. When DS was in K, there were only 17 in his class- it was fabulous. My girls had about 20 and it was a bit much. I once chatted with DS's K teacher about the ratio and she said 19-20 is quite manageable, but above that is difficult. And we get a LOT of parent volunteers, who are in class reading, and helping with projects.

FWIW- in one of my girls' K classes there were 3 boys who went to the same daycare since infancy. They were all in the same K class. They might as well have been rambunctious triplet boys. My girls were always telling me about the trouble they were in. The teacher mentioned to me that she spent a much longer time than usual on rules/routines because of these boys. The other class with my 2 other girls was much more sedate and they were ready to start academics much earlier. It frustrated my girls, who were jealous of their sisters bringing home reading books and worksheets.

I think the teacher just really needed to get a handle on the situation. I would be happy to know this is going on now, and not 2 months from now. I think if I were in charge of 27 Ks, you'd walk in the room and find me tied to chair.

Oh, and my girls are pulling that kind of silly behavior at soccer and other activties. They would NEVER do it at school. But are a bit disruptive at soccer. I told the coach to feel free to do what he needs to do to get their attention. They are running a lot of laps.

MonsterMom6
10 year old ^b^ b twins @ 30w5d (1 survivor) and
8 year old gggg quads @ 32w0d

I am shocked at the number of kids in the class. It seems to me that either there are going to be a whole passle of kids who need to learn and aren't going to, and/or there will be a whole passle who are bored stiff and will be complicating things for everybody else. Not good. I am surprised also by the lack of aides for the class.

BUT, I love the fact that your little guy has decided that he has his own office. You just tell that boy that, if he works really hard, he'll have the corner office in no time, and he'll be the one who gets to run the classroom!!!

Oops. Now you all know why my son is such a little smart-a@@. (Not really. I only think these kinds of things. I generally don't say them, unless it is to an audience of triplet moms. I guess there is a little of the "class clown" in all of us.)

Cat w/3 Kittens
Caidan, Carina and Caeleigh
Born at 31 weeks, 1/8/04.

In my opinion, it looks like she took the easy way out (not that I blame her with so many kids to manage) by giving him an "office". My guess is that it was a punishment that he turned into a plus and got more attention for (what a way to make lemons into lemonade). Now that it backfired on her she's not sure what to do.

I would hope that in the future she will work more on developing his skills to be a active member of the class (Isn't that what kindergarten is all about?)rather than isolating him which does nothing to teach him how he will need to perform in future classroom situations.

If I were her, I might get rid of the desk....maybe they need it in another classroom. Or, I would change who gets the "office" from time to time.

Granted, I've never been a teacher. However, this doesn't seem like a solution that will be workable as he gets older. He needs to learn how to act as a member of the class rather than be given a special status in class. It doesn't sound like he has been too much of a problem, but I don't think her solution will help him in the future and may even make things worse.

I do agree with trying to get some voluteers to help her out. I can't imagine trying to accomplish much of anything with so many 5 year olds by myself. I hope things improve as the year progresses.

Andi
g/b/g
6 yo kindergartners
born Aug. 2003