we attended a cub scout open house mtg last night..
2/3 of my boys are interested in joining..

Does anyone have any feedback on the benefits of scouting these days?
We live in NNJ - the pack meets once a week.. with varous outings and activities planned..

thanks !

Lisa mom to Melanie(29)
Guillermo,Jonathan,William(10.9.01 @34 weeks)
grandma to Brianna(6)

My DS joined last year as a 2nd grader (Wolf). He LOVED it and is planning on going through 5th grade. He is even up for going back and completing the Tiger requirements (1st grade) so he can earn the very cool arrow that most of the 5th grade boys earned last year.

Our pack (all dens) meets once a month. It male-run, but there is a lot of involvement from moms too. The den meets once or twice a month, depending on scheduling and urgency to complete some requirements before the March Blue & Gold Banquet. There are some things they'll ask you to complete at home, but most requirements are done as group in the den.

Other events that are optional participation are popcorn selling, pinewood derby, stick building, 2 campouts each year.

Our group is very laid back and accepting of scheduling issues. At our first pack meeting, one of the boys in my DS's den showed up late in tackle football pads and cleats. But he wore his Cub Scout hat. They are also well organized and well funded through popcorn sales. In talking with other parents from other schools, I think ours is one of the best (and largest) in the area.

The whole family is invited to campouts and are "come as you can." We haven't made one yet due to scheduling conflicts, but hope that DH and DS will do the fall one at the end of October. I understand that some moms and siblings go when they can make it. So, if you have a soccer game Saturday AM, then come Saturday afternoon. Can't spend the night? They are only 1 hour away. Don't have gear? Usually enough to share.

For us, this has been a great experience thus far, for both DS and DH. Neither of them gets enough "man time" so it's been good. They are out right now selling popcorn outside the hardware stor .

I know it's not for everyone. Our Pack Leader's oldest DS only did 2 or 3 years. It's not his thing. But the younger brother really thrives with it and will likely go through at least 5th grade.

It's really worth trying out for a year. That's what we did.

MonsterMom6
10 year old ^b^ b twins @ 30w5d (1 survivor) and
8 year old gggg quads @ 32w0d

I would definitely suggest trying it. Our two boys are in 2nd grade and this is their 2nd year so they are Wolfs. Husband is the Den leader and I am the pack mother. Our Den belongs to a Pack which is all the Cub Scouts out of our school. The Pack plans lots of activities along with the council. AS a Den we work on the trail for completing the requirements for the rank. We meet about once every three weeks, depending on the number of Pack and Council activities. We are getting ready for first full family encampment in three weeks at the Boy Scout camp in Mississippi. Now I have to go and buy a tent for five….

How it goes will depend on the Den he is in, how well he gets along with the kids in his Den, how activity the pack is, how good the leaders are. Our Den does have a lot of parent participation which makes it even better. We have 10 boys in our Den all from the 3 second grade classes at school so they all now each other and where together last year as wolves.

It also gave me a chance to meet other parents. Working fulltime I really don’t meet many of the other parents from school so this also gives me so friendship with parents in the same area,

I also do girl scouts with my Daughter, guess who is the co-leader???.

Good Luck - definitely give it a try.

Joanne

Joanne
Mom to Joseph, Elizabeth and Phillip
Born 7/7/02 in New Orleans

I would definitely suggest trying it. Our two boys are in 2nd grade and this is their 2nd year so they are Wolfs. Husband is the Den leader and I am the pack mother. Our Den belongs to a Pack which is all the Cub Scouts out of our school. The Pack plans lots of activities along with the council. AS a Den we work on the trail for completing the requirements for the rank. We meet about once every three weeks, depending on the number of Pack and Council activities. We are getting ready for first full family encampment in three weeks at the Boy Scout camp in Mississippi. Now I have to go and buy a tent for five….

How it goes will depend on the Den he is in, how well he gets along with the kids in his Den, how activity the pack is, how good the leaders are. Our Den does have a lot of parent participation which makes it even better. We have 10 boys in our Den all from the 3 second grade classes at school so they all now each other and where together last year as wolves.

It also gave me a chance to meet other parents. Working fulltime I really don’t meet many of the other parents from school so this also gives me so friendship with parents in the same area,

I also do girl scouts with my Daughter, guess who is the co-leader???.

Good Luck - definitely give it a try.

Joanne

Joanne
Mom to Joseph, Elizabeth and Phillip
Born 7/7/02 in New Orleans

Thanks for posting this. We just got some info about Daisy Girl Scouts and I think we're going to sign up.

I'm sure these extra activities after school can't do anything but make the kids have fun and feel good about themselves.

Lisa

My girls LOVE Daisies. And it's very simple. They switched to a 2-year program last year. It's so laid back. Meet monthly and had 6 of their 10 petals earned last year, even after a slow start as the leadership formed and got organized. So an easy year coming up.

MonsterMom6
10 year old ^b^ b twins @ 30w5d (1 survivor) and
8 year old gggg quads @ 32w0d

Oh, thank you for sharing! You just made me even more excited to sign them up since your girls are loving it.

Lisa

FYI- our Daisy troop decided to forego the apron. Instead we bought silk-screened shirts with a white daisy, our troop number on the front and The Girls Scout Promise on written out on the back.

We got canvas tote bags from Joann and had the girls paint and decorate one side. The other is for their troop patch, American flag, and all the Daisy petals they earn. Also all the other patches they get for outings, etc.

The leaders (one also has a Brownie troop) suggested this. Said she heard about another troop that did the bags and now the girls have a fun tote, instead of a goofy apron. They wear the tshirt to school on Daisy day and on outings. The leaders and extra moms got shirts for outings too. They are a very pretty blue- unique enough for tracking.

I guess GSA is pretty flexible with Daisies and uniforms, etc. Our leaded even told us not to buy the handbook. That they could operate from her book just fine.

I really didn't want to have another activity, but my girls were begging me. AND, I found out that there were about 20 girls who expressed an interest. That is 20% of the Kindy girls. It's a big social thing and right now it's positive. There are a LOT of blue shirts running around on Daisy day. I think next year they'll have to split up into 2 troops as the Brownie requirements become more involved. Twenty giggly, excited girls at a meeting is a lot.

MonsterMom6
10 year old ^b^ b twins @ 30w5d (1 survivor) and
8 year old gggg quads @ 32w0d

My girls are daisies this year. The only actual official uniform for the Girl Ccouts is that yellow tab with the with the membership pins on it. Otherwise, the girls can wear what they want. The tunic, vests and sashes are only for putting the badges on. I was a Brownie and Girl Scout when I was a little girl. I think I quit after the 5th grade, but I loved it. Plus, now I have great access to those cookies!

My boys are Cub Scouts, but we do it through our church since we are LDS and it is what we do on Wed. nights. My DH and all his brothers are Eagle Scouts.

Since we moved back to Texas, it is really big here. A couple of packs tried to recruit us early in the school year and was disappointed when they found out we were LDS. My boys are friends with several boys who are in school packs and it has given them something else in common, even not being in the same pack.

Cindy
Paul and Andrew
Kristen, Rachel and Michael

I don't plan on letting my boys join scouts because they don't allow homosexuals to join and I'm not a fan of discrimination.

Girl scouts are ok with the gays though, so if my daughter wants to join, I'll let her.

Kelli

Morgan (11) & natural (by natural I mean concieved on top of a picnic table at a campground, so maybe it should say nature-al) BBG triplets Eric, Josh, and Hannah born @ 33w1d



http://b5.lilypie

I just wanted to jump in here and say we are avoiding cub scouts for the same reason. If you look at their website they are VERY upfront about their discrimination and I think it is frightening. We are teaching our kids that everyone is equal -- no matter race, sexual orientation or whatever. We talked about it and feel that joining an organization (no matter how fun it looks) that explicitly goes against this belief sends the wrong message to the kids.

We are researching 4H clubs locally to see how they fare. From their website it looks really cool.

Tara

Mom to BBG born at 33wks on 4/3/03

In addition to that, they don't allow atheists or agnostics. Which is cool with me if they were holding this at a church. But it does sort of annoy me that they promote it at school and hold the meetings at school and hand out pamphlets about it at school. If you want to be a private ogranization, then be private.

I was attracted to it, but it is just way too discrimatory for me as well. None of us know yet if one of our children will end up gay. Gay children whose parents and peers do not accept them have the same overall outcome as children who are physically or sexually abused. The scouts seem too risky to me.

Michele
Sarah, Gregory, Amanda
born 1/22/04 at 35w1d

Our surprise baby Austin born 06/15/2005

www.fourtimesthefun.blogspot.com

Just thought I'd mention that as far as the boys understanding or knowing anything about the discrimination you described, they don't. They learn to be responsible, good citizens. And they have a lot of fun and make friendships. They are exposed to a variety of different careers, and contributors to the community. My DS has no clue about extent of religion or the exclusion of certain types of people. He just has a great time and is learning along the way. AND he's getting some wonderful time with his father.

Yes, they do have achievements for religion and they do say "God" in their promise. But the religious aspect is not really a focus in our pack. It's charterd by the school PTO. I assume one chartered by a church would put more emphasis on God and religion. AND the religion aspect incorporates many different faiths. I don't know that they "don't allow agnostics or atheists", but I don't recall ever being asked either. I also don't recall if being gay was on any form. Now, my DH isn't a leader, so maybe those forms are different.

Yes, an organization must match up to your belief system in many ways. But I just don't see the things that you and other posters have mentioned being put into practice in our area. Maybe my head is buried or I'm naive.

I know in our area, the boy scout troops are sponsored by churches. So yes, when you get to that level, it might be difficult if you were openly atheist, agnostic, or gay feel welcome. But on the cub scout level, it just isn't an issue. But at that age (6th grade), most boys should be able to make that choice for themselves.

FWIW, I have a friend who is less inclined to have her girls do Girl Scouts because they are much more liberal. She's heard of some troops almost becoming "preachy" about adopting alternate life-styles. I guess some groups were going a bit above teaching girls empowerment and acceptance.

But what it really comes down to, is that both organizations try to teach kids to be responsible citizens and contribute positively to the community and their families. They also encourage kids to try new things. And if you want a say in how the troop, den, or pack accomplishes this, then you can volunteer to be a leader. You would then have a bit more control over the message.

I'm sure there are plenty of other organizations that would be a fit for many who are hesitant about scouting. I was a Camp Fire Girl, friends have done Indian Guides, and as mentioned there is 4H and FFA.

MonsterMom6
10 year old ^b^ b twins @ 30w5d (1 survivor) and
8 year old gggg quads @ 32w0d

Awwww.....I'm going to be so sad when the schools have to kick out the scouts. I'm sure that it is just a matter of time, but I will be very sad. Our school has an awesome Cub Scout Pack that has over 80 boys (1st-5th grade) that are actively participating and really enjoying the organization. The things that the boys have gotten to experience and learn have been fabulous.

I don't think the Cub Scouts are discriminatory, however, they do have opinions that are un-popular with some people. I really don't believe that anyone is being turned away, but the Cub Scouts are not changing their "Promise", or re-doing achievements to accomodate all beliefs. If people are offended, or do not agree with the beliefs of the Cub Scouts, they shouldn't have their kids join, that is their choice. But, to say that kids are being turned away because of their religious beliefs, or potential sexual orientation is unfair. Why an athiest would want their child to join an organization that goes against their beliefs is beyond me, but if they do want their child to be in Cub Scouts and allow them to fully participate, I'm sure the Cub Scouts would not turn the child away.

Now, I didn't try it, but I'm sure that Google can provide us with a bunch of examples of how the Cub Scout organization is hateful and teaches terrible things, but a few examples of what some crazies are doing is not going to change my opinion of this organization. The focus of our Pack and Den is to teach the boys about pride, and respect, and working toward goals, and to build their confidence, and for them to have fun experiences that they would not typically have. I am very much enjoying our Cub Scout experience and have been so thrilled and impressed with the things that my boys have been doing with the scouts.

Kelly
Ben, Jack & Drew 05/28/02
Charlie 07/06/06
Aunt to: Liam, Aidan & Connor 03/05/08
www.outnumberedmommy.blogspot.com

Here are the controversies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies

It is right in their guidlines that you may not be a member if you are atheist or agnostic. I am neither. I believe in God. My problem is that if you don't want to change your rules to accomodate different beliefs that are very present in my school, we have a very diverse ethnic population, then get out of my school. Recruit at church. We have a large Asian population at our school and two Buddhist temples within walking distance of my school.

Why wouldn't an atheist want their child to have the scout experience? Does your pack focus on God a lot?

And, yes, I love the scouts as far as the camping, nature, survival, character building, etc. It is rather depressing to me that I feel hung up on this issue. I am just going to go with the flow and see how our particular pack is. If a lot of my kids friends end up being in it, I may change my mind. I do that a lot.

Michele
Sarah, Gregory, Amanda
born 1/22/04 at 35w1d

Our surprise baby Austin born 06/15/2005

www.fourtimesthefun.blogspot.com

oops

Parent to GGG born 31 weeks 4 days 4/26/07




http://www.thedivinemercy.org/message

  

MSTAR, thanks for sharing the Wiki article. I spent some time looking over the BSA site and couldn't find the statements that others mentioned were clear and all over the site. I just read through a good portion of the article and have some thoughts.

The focus of the article was a description of "don't ask;don't tell", as with the US military. I guess one would have to make there own judgements and draw their own conclusions about this and their comfort level for their son. It stated a man was denied being a badge counselor due to his sexual orientation. I find this disappointing, as the man may have really been able to teach the boys a great skill related to the badge subject. AND BSA has strict guidelines where a scout can't be alone with an adult. So he would be with a buddy or his parent when visiting a badge counselor. But these things don't happen until you hit Boy Scouts. Cubs do everything as a group or get individual achievements by working with their parent.

As far as the "God" component of the oath, BSA is quite liberal in it's interpretation. So anyone who believes in any sort of "supreme being" says "God" to mean that being. They are accepting of American Indian beliefs and Wikkens (sp?) too. But really, in Cubs that are sponsored by the school PTO, there is so little emphasis on the religion component, it's almost non-existant as far as the group is concerned. If you want to earn the religion patch you have to get with a clergy person on your own. I'm sure it's more of a focus in church-sponsored pack.

The other things brought up in the article were "reverent" and "morally straight". Yes, reverence is taught/expected in many church youth programs, but it's definition isn't just about God and faithfulness. From dictionary.com

"Reverent– adjective feeling, exhibiting, or characterized by reverence; deeply respectful: a reverent greeting. "

"Morally straight" is REALLY subjective. Some believe homosexuality is immoral. There just gonna thing that and you can't change it. There are also many homosexuals that have a profound belief in God, marriage, family, and being a good person and good citizen.

So, I guess don't buy all of the points in the article, and think that in some geographic areas, they may be more of a sticking point. But where we are, I just don't see it being even on the radar. They are not raising up a generation of anti-gay religious zealots. At least not in my town.

It is a personal choice, and I agree that one who believes that higher power is non-existant, likely woulndn't want to be part of an organization that has "serve God" in it's oath.

I just think it's worth taking a look at for Cubs in real life and not just a bunch of activists and political rhetoric and think about what the organization can do for your child.

Off the soapbox now.

I'll just share what my 9 year old did last night. He is a Bear (3rd grade). A bunch of grandpa types from the community rec center Whittling Club came to the den meeting and taught them how to whittle. My son has an almost complete Ivory soap turtle that really looks amazing. While whittling isn't a skill that will land him a corporate job, he had the opportunity to interact with some very nice people from a different generation. He got practice being polite and respectful. He learned about patience and perseverence. I'm sure the gentlemen were delighted to share their hobby with the boys. It was a fun evening for all of them. Oh, and nobody asked anyone about God or homosexuality. They just whittled.

MonsterMom6
10 year old ^b^ b twins @ 30w5d (1 survivor) and
8 year old gggg quads @ 32w0d